Hello
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And welcome to today's webinar and a warm welcome to everybody. We acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the many lands on which we work
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And pay respects to Indigenous elders past and present, and acknowledge their continuing connection to land, water, and community. Now, as everyone is joining us today, and you're coming into today's session
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I wanted to say a big warm welcome to you. I'm Brett Osmond, the editor of Compass, and this webinar is brought to you by Compass.info and Elder Abuse Action Australia
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Now today we're talking about the true cost of retirement Village living. And I'm really pleased and very grateful to have a special guest joining us today, Roger Pallant. Roger
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Welcome. Roger is the president of the New South Wales Retirement Village Residents Association. And so he is an incredibly experienced and knowledgeable person. And although he is
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A representative of New South Wales has worked with and is very familiar with the laws, contracts, conditions and issues
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Relating to Retirement Village living around Australia. So a big warm welcome to you, Roger. Now, I'm just going to do a little bit of housekeeping just to in today's session is very much a Q&A
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We're going to use the chat, so please put your questions into the chat and Roger and I will get to them and answer as many questions as we can in the hour that we are together.
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Now, the event is being recorded and the link to the full recording will be emailed to everybody in the next few days, along with a transcript of today's
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discussion and a copy of all of the questions that have been put forward in the chat. Now, I did want to highlight compass.info. We have a
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Housing and accommodation section dedicated on the site. We've got quite a few very good and informative articles on issues relating to housing and accommodation, particularly a few on retirement village living, and I would like to draw your attention
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to that page. It's featured on the home page of Compass today down the bottom of the page. But when you click on it, there'll be a resources section. And I did want to highlight
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Some videos that the New South Wales Retirement Village Residence Association have produced. They're seven minutes each, there's three of them. And they are really highly recommended. There's one on the cost of entering a Retirement Village
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One costs associated with everyday living, and then another on the costs of exiting. Now, we will be essentially breaking our conversation up into those three sections
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But Roger, I thought we'd start by asking you if you could give us a quick overview of the Retirement Village market and some of the trends that you are seeing.
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Yeah, thank you, Brett, and thank you for having us.
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The market, what we are seeing is that what was happening five years ago is totally different today
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And what it'll look like in five years time will be totally different again. There's a huge shift in Retirement Village
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And this word independence living is starting to be something that's a misnomer now
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The pressure on operators and people living in retirement villages to stay in the village as long as they can from government
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is quite immense. The support at home program that's just come out is wanting residents to stay in their home as long as they can because there are no places available for them
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In aged care facilities, the government says they have to build an aged care facility every 3 days to keep up with the demand
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So that pressure is to keep us in our homes, and we are living longer, therefore it's putting a lot of pressure
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operators to provide services and facilities
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and support at home to keep us in our homes longer. So, there's going to be a shift in terms of the model, the contract models that
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people who enter into and the services that we have available within a retirement Village
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And I do know that
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50 or 60% of operators are now
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supported home providers
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So they are looking at that space and they're starting that work now. So in five years time
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It's going to be different. And the contracts that are coming out will reflect that new model
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Great, thank you. Look, a question that I've got to sort of kick off is
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You know, when you buy into a retirement village, what are you actually buying?
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Great question. And we've actually surveyed over four and a half thousand people in Australia with the help of our other national IVRAs and ask them exactly that question.
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And one, the answer is
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You are not buying into a Retirement Village as an investment opportunity
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If you're buying into Retirement Village for lifestyle opportunity. So when you buy into a Retirement Village, you're going into a village that
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Provide you with safety and security. You're surrounded by like-minded people, you have access to a whole heap of facilities that are at your doorstep and not shared with the public community, just with the residents within that village
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And you don't have to do the gardening. You don't have to do the cleaning up of the premises. So all of those things we did
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Someone else will do that for you.
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In my view, moving into Retirement Villages is an excellent choice
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At an age, the problem is a lot of people are moving in
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At a later age, I think the average age moving in is 78. The average age of people in Retirement buildings in Australia is 82.
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And that therefore I think my view, they're moving too late.
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Right, yeah. So you said something to me earlier, which is, you know, moving, buying into a retirement Village is not an investment opportunity.
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Correct.
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It's a lifestyle opportunity. And so
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That is a very important distinction, isn't it?
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It's a huge distinction because only 1% of people in our survey said they moved in because of an investment opportunity. So
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People are… people our age
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And not silly
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We are
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Well-informed, educated, we're able to make informed decisions
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And therefore moving into Retirement Village, people will quickly understand that
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There may be capital gain, you may make some money out of your village and you may not
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But you don't move in because of those financial factors. You move in because you're going to have a quality of life, peace of mind, and are surrounded by like-minded people.
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Great. Now we will get to some questions that are starting to come through, but I wanted to ask you, I guess from the get go, the most important thing when you're thinking about entering a retirement village is the contract itself
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Now, what advice would you give to people regarding their understanding of a contract, the things that are typically included in a contract
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What
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What should people be looking very carefully at?
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Okay, so this is the most important phase of the whole journey
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And it's the issue that comes up
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from our members and from around Australia, at the end of the journey, because they've failed to understand what they've signed for
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And often that concern comes from the children who don't understand what mum and dad have signed for. So this is the most important part of the process. Now, in all states, I believe in all states, there is a disclosure document
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Now, the disclosure document is a simplified version, and it's provided to the incoming resident, potential resident
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Prior to getting the contract or signing the contract
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Now, this disclosure document will have a whole lot of information that's relevant. What are you paying? What are your weekly fees? What are the exit fees, and all those sorts of things. All of the prime things you need to make a decision
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When you get the contract, there shouldn't be any surprises in it.
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However, in the contract, there will be additional items like village rules and village rules will spell out, can I have pets? Can I have visitors? Can I leave my caravan outside the house? Simple things like that. And every contract has different village rules, and sometimes
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different villages have different rules. So our advice is always get professional help
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So when you sign and I see going into a retirement village like a honeymoon
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You're going into a new venture and you go in and you look around and say, wow, look at that. They've got a pool, they've got tennis courts, they have happy hour, they've got all these wonderful things
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And you soon forget what's in the contract. You put it away in 10, 15 years later when you drag it out, say.
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Why am I paying an exit fee
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So people do forget they don't remember, and it's important that everybody understands and reviews their contract on a regular basis.
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Yeah.
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Okay. And we might go, thank you. We might go to some questions that are coming through. We've got one from Gianfranco. I'd like to know more about the cost of leaving a retirement village. Now, we will get to that, so we might just park that question
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Yeah.
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But we will come back to it because it's a very, very important one. We've got a question here from Sarah Fisher. Are 99-year leases
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still a thing
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Absolutely
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Or were they ever a thing in Retirement Villages?
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Yep.
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No, they are a thing, and they're typically in leasehold villages and I won't get too technical, but a 99 year lease means that you are a registered interest holder. If you have a 50 year lease and you're not a registered interest holder
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And that provides you with some certainty. But 99-year leases in mainly leasehold, and they
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56% of the contracts that are going around
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Right, right, okay. Now, we will get to exit fees because they are a really big thing. But what are some of the new pricing models
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that we're seeing in retirement villages
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Okay, and because there is a bit of
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Yes.
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fear about exit fees and not understanding them, and because they are a big hit at the end of somebody's life, and typically there's the children who will
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Right.
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have to pay that, or that will come out of the fees that their parents are being paid. They don't understand it. And it could be anything from $200,000, $300,000 in some cases, and it could be a lot more
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All right, so basically those fees
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The reason they have a deferred management fee is to keep the incoming price down
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So, if so, operators
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Sorry, just to interrupt you there, is a deferred management fee essentially the exit cost?
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Yeah.
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Great. Thank you.
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Yep.
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or exit for you, they're the same things. Some people call it the food management fee, some people call it exit fees. It's the money you pay when you leave the village to the operator. And it's important to note that the operator makes no money out of us
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While we're living in the village
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Right.
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All of our recurrent charges or weekly fees or service fees go into running the village and it's a budget and that's residence money. So operators don't have access to that.
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They only get their money to refresh or renew or refurbish stuff when we leave
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Right.
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Now, with the new modelling, because of the concern about the exit fee, with the new modellings, the same no exit fee
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Right.
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Alright, so this is an option, by the way. You can still go either way
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Are these being introduced? No, no exit fees.
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Right
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These are being introduced right now, right now. I know some of the major operators throughout Australia are introducing these right now for new incoming residents. So that's an option people can take.
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However, you've got to be really careful
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Right, but there must be greater entry costs
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Sorry.
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There must be greater costs somewhere else
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There is, because we have to remember
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You've got to look at these sums, because often
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Pricing depends on the longevity, how long you stay in the village
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Right.
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And also, it can often involve watching capital gains is as well. So there's a lot of financial issues people need to take into account. The new modelling isn't a better model, it's a different way of doing it
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Right.
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And you will pay more up cost and you may pay more weekly service fees
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Right.
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So if I can put a personal view on it, I'm in favor of the deferred management for the exit fee because that means
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I've got more money to spend while I'm alive and my kids get less.
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Yeah, right.
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I'm sorry, kids, I hope you're not watching this, but you will get less. So for me, I've got more
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accessible income
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Disposable income
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Right.
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That's correct, that's correct. So, but that's a choice. And again, I just say to people
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Why up that choice carefully, but get legal help
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Yeah.
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So they spell out what it is, the different models
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Yeah, yeah.
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Now, we've got a question here from Patu. Who do you get to check the contract? I mean, I guess a lawyer, are there specialist services? What kind of assistance can people find
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Well.
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And I'll talk about New South Wrights because I'm not sure about the rest, but throughout New South Wales, there are specialist lawyers
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Some conveyances do it
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But they're looking at different things. A lawyer will look at the actual conditions of the agreement that you're signing and point them out to you.
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Yep.
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There are quite a number of lawyers that we would we refer people to throughout Australia. And we would say
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Do your due diligence, get it checked over, understand exactly what you're signing up for.
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Thank you.
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Great. Now, I thought I will mention that when we send out a link to the video, we'll also send a link to each of the Retirement Village associations around Australia so that you can go to them as a resource
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Look, I would also suggest that community legal centres could also be a port of call and also there are other services such as legal aid in each of the states and territories
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All of the details of those institutions are available on Compass as well, and we'll try and include them in the newsletter to you after this event.
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Now, can I ask you, look, are there any other considerations when you are entering a village? You highlighted the issue that sometimes it's the beneficiaries of somebody's estate. Should they pass away
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100%.
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Whilst they're living in a retirement village, they can get surprised. Do you encourage people to sit down with their families, with their friends, with the people that are close to them, so that they can be fully
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All on the same page, I suppose
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Yep.
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Yeah, absolutely. We absolutely do that. And we
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I think this is only available in New South Wales under our legislation in that
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Residents can meet with the manager once a year for contract information session
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Yep.
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And they can take their family along and we encourage them to do that so that the manager will spell out, here's what we think your house is worth. This is what we think you have to pay. This is whatever we need to do this. So people know beforehand
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This young couple I'm helping in my village, they did not have a clue
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And that's that's understandable
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Yep.
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But it's really important that if you're a resident living in retirement, reach out to your family or whoever is and make sure they know your contract and what you've signed up for. That is a legally binding document
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Yeah, very good point
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How do you get them
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Now, we had a great comment here from Martin Le Marchant, who says, for a retirement village contract, the best advice is usually to have it reviewed. And he's given some details, but definitely by a solicitor with retirement village experience
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And I guess that is probably a really salient point. So thank you, Martin. And
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Yeah.
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And that's sorry but butting in, I know I know Martin. Hello, Martin but he's absolutely right, and that's how Vice taught as well
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You can get people looking at it who think they know what they're doing, unless they specialise in Retirement values, living in contracts, you're probably not going to get the best advice you can get.
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Yeah, thank you. That's really, really important. We've got a question here from Brian McBride. Should operators be allowed to offer levies fixed for life
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To some prospective residents, but not to all. This complicates effects on budgets for others
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And Brian is making a statement he believes it should not be allowed. Do you have a position?
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I do, I do. And here's the issue with retirement Village Living in Australia. There are so many different contracts and you can have a village. In particular, my village has got four different contracts
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Right.
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And each of those contracts have different conditions, but that's what the resident signed up for at that time
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Most operators, as they refresh the village, they will go to one standard
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contract and remembering that a lot of villages are bought and sold
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So, and under the legislation, the new operator must abide by the old contract, even if they have, in their view a better one. So that again is a legal issue. Once you've signed that, that's what the conditions are.
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Right, yeah, no, interesting. One here from another attendee. Are there requirements for accommodation to be listed as independent living unit, or specifically for 6
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and older
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Well
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55 and over actually it is
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It's 55 and over
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Right
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Right.
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55 and over you'll see, but some villages I know some villages got 75 and over. That's their core, right? That's the operator's call to how they market it, to what audience they… or what target market they want to go to.
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Yeah.
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But in New South Wales and a few other states, there's a registry of Retirement Villages
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So you can get up, you can get on and have a look at what Retirement Villages are registered and et cetera, et cetera.
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Also, if you go to villagers.com, it will list all of the retirement Villages in each state
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And it will tell you how many independent living units there are, how many assisted living units there are, whether or not they have an aged care part to it. So that's always a good source for people who are looking to go into a village.
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Have a look and it'll often give you the operator's name, and therefore you can do research on the operator. It will also give you information about pricing
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pricing on some of the villas are at the time
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Okay, good advice, good advice. We've got some more questions, but I wanted to jump quickly into once you're inside
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Yeah.
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And you're living in a retirement village. There are day-to-day, year-to-year costs. Can you… can you explain some of the typical costs associated with just being in a Retirement Village?
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Well, the main cost is your weekly, fortnightly, monthly fees, and we call it recurrent fees. It could be a service fee. Different people call it different things.
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But that's the residence contribution to running the village for that year, and that's where the budget comes from. So, you know, the residents put the money in, the budget frame, and hopefully the enough money in to get all the things done
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Yeah.
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So that's the main cost. So nearly every resident will pay that. The other added charges. Some villages charge car parking fees
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Right?
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or garage fees
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Our village, if you've got a motorhome or a caravan, you can store it in a secure area, but you will pay for that. So there's some user pays system going on, but generally the major cost is the recurrent charges or the service fee.
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Right. Can you explain what a capital works fund is, and how it operates in a retirement village?
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I can, if you've got about 2 hours, but capital works funds are different throughout different states, and again, without picking on New South Wales, it's the most heavily mandated part of the Capital Works Fund
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Capital Works Fund is it can happen in different ways. It can be included in a budget and it's usually for forecasting capital maintenance that's due to be done
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So, it's put aside. It can be in the budget, and therefore the residents will approve the budget with that amount in it to do those certain things. In some cases, and like in my village, it's not in our budget, it's a surplus, so it's money that's not spent during the year
00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:29.000
And that's going into an account, and it's residence money, and it can only be used by residence consent.
00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:37.000
Right.
00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:38.000
Right.
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:44.000
But some people call capital works fund a sinking fund or a future management fund or something like that. But it's not strong in the other states of Australia, very strong in New South Wales, but not very strong
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:48.000
And not very legislated, heavily legislated in other states
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:59.000
Okay, now we'll jump to a question here from Jennifer Langton. Can you give an example of a circumstance where a resident can be asked to leave the village
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:05.000
Due to declining health or ability to live independently.
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:17.000
Thank you, Jennifer, and I know who you are. This is a really, really difficult question and it's quite topical at the moment because I'm involved in a couple of cases right now.
00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:29.000
If usually the best way to do it, like you will get people coming into a village who are fine, five years later, they've got dementia or they've got something else going on.
00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:34.000
If they've got a carer, that's fine. But in certain cases without a carer
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:43.000
It's very difficult for a operator to get somebody out of the village without going through some due legal process.
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:58.000
The best way to do it, the most common way to do it is to get the family involved and say, listen, I think Mum and dad should be better off and safer somewhere else. That's happened in my village. Mum and dad, there should be somewhere else and it comes quite apparent
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:12.000
When a person gets to that stage and all the residents tend to know what's going on, but it's a really, really difficult and I know of a circumstance where the kid said, no, you look after her
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:13.000
Yeah.
00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:28.000
And that's not what Retirement living is about. Residents tend to become the first responders for any issues within the village, particularly after hours. And that's an onus, but it's something we do because, you know, it's our community spirit
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:38.000
Interesting, good question.
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:39.000
Yep.
00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:46.000
There's a detailed response there from one of the attendees to Jennifer's question, but I'll jump to which everyone can read. I'll jump to Lisa Williams' question. She's saying
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:58.000
I have no volume. I am unsure why we can receive a copy of the recording afterwards. Yes, Lisa, you will get a copy of the recording afterwards.
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:01.000
Now, we've got another question
00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:16.000
Oh, we've got a question basically, I think about doing the same for the federal government support at home program. We probably don't have time within this, but I think that's an excellent suggestion.
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:35.000
Now, we've got a question. I'll come back to Brian's question, but a question from Kenneth Millard. When it comes to the annual budget process, can the residence committee or finance subcommittee request to review any tenders, quotes, contracts for the village services
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:40.000
By subcontractors. It's a very good question.
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:47.000
And it's a question that, thank you, Ken, and I know who Ken is. That question's been going around for some time.
00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:54.000
If it's in a budget, and it's a proposed item of expense, then yes, the residence committee is entitled to see
00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:56.000
Quotes?
00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:01.000
But not necessarily quotes of subcontractors. If they're coming through
00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:09.000
A major contractor. So there might be a major contractor doing some works and they might employ five different contractors.
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:16.000
You might not get access to that information, but you should get access to the original contractor's quotes
00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:18.000
all the quotes for that position. Job
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:33.000
Right, right. Yes. I, in my research for today's conversation, watched an ABC report. I believe it may have been a Four Corners report on Retirement Village living
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:38.000
They did raise some issues around vertical integration
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:55.000
Of some supply channels that the operator is also connected with the builder or the people who repair. So I guess having as much oversight or ability
00:27:55.000 --> 00:28:01.000
To understand who contractors are is very important for residents.
00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:07.000
It is, but
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:08.000
Yeah.
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.000
We're coming from an issue of trust, I guess, and
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:17.000
We could spend their whole life as residents chasing down rabbit holes, trying to find issues with everything that goes on
00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:25.000
And the building the relationship with the manager and the operator is critical to the success of a really good run village.
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:26.000
Yep.
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:37.000
And the Residence Committee plays an extremely important role in that. So that relationship is seriously important between them so that the trust is there and the transparency is there
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:38.000
Yeah.
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:43.000
Usually these issues happen when that trust or transparency is eroded in some way
00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:59.000
Okay, yeah, good, good answer. Frank Collins asks, when is it the operator's responsibility to maintain capital items? I guess, yeah, who decides, oh, we really do need to repair the roof
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:08.000
of the common area, or or the you know the other kind of aspects of the built environment
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:21.000
Yeah, good question, Frank, and I know who you are too. And these are not Dorothy Dick's questions, I hope, but it's always an ongoing issue about replacement versus repair
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:22.000
Now
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:28.000
I know you in New South Wales, I believe is an asset management plan which puts an effective life on
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:44.000
items of capital. And once they reach that item of capital, the operator should replace it, not repair it. Now, we know that in some circumstances, operators will keep repairing, repairing, repairing because that's a resident's cost
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:56.000
So there's a balance between the cost of repairing and ongoing towards
00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:57.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:04.000
change the pump, buy a new pump, because it's… it's due life. So it's an ongoing… it's really on… it's a grey area and you'll get one person saying this thing and another person saying that thing
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:14.000
Right. We've got I'll go to some other items associated with living in a Retirement Village, but a great question here. I'm slightly off
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:31.000
topic, but I think an important one. One of the biggest shocks this person has supported clients through is that living in a retirement Village does not automatically mean a place in the attached aged care facility.
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:32.000
Yeah.
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:34.000
Now, can you speak a little bit to this? I mean, Jennifer has jumped in as well, but
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:36.000
Yeah.
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:40.000
Well, Retirement was the state legislation
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:43.000
Aged care is federal
00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:52.000
So they're not across purposes, but there's no guarantee if you're in a village that has an aged care component, you will get a place there
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.000
No guarantee. However, people will
00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:12.000
allowances, or try to get that person in there. Some easy transition, but it doesn't always work out that way. So there is no guarantee.
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:13.000
Yeah.
00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:20.000
Can I, just whilst we're on the everyday costs, you've mentioned an asset management plan. What about if you want to make changes to your retirement Village unit whilst you're living there? Who pays for that? How is that done
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:37.000
Well, yeah. And this is available in every state. So when you move into a premises, you have a condition report saying this is what's in, this is what you pay for. Now say I want to put a gazebo at the back or something, you know, an enclosed space on my
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:39.000
my decking
00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:42.000
I can do that with
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:44.000
writer approval
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:46.000
And I will pay that
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:47.000
Right.
00:31:47.000 --> 00:32:02.000
And I will pay that and I will enjoy that benefit for as long as I'm living in that complex. So that's something that pretty much every Retirement Village is able to do with approval
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:03.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:06.000
If you don't get approval, then other things will happen, because they may get you to take it down at your cost
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:07.000
Yeah.
00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:09.000
So it's always good to get approval
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:27.000
Right, wonderful. Are there any other typical costs that you can expect just from, you know, month to month, year to year, whilst you're living in a retirement village?
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:31.000
Yep.
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:32.000
Okay
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:36.000
Not that I can think of the other costs is if you want to join one of the social committees or you want to go to the parties and that sort of thing, but not directly with the operator. I can't think of too many others, no.
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.000
Okay.
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:38.000
But that wasn't specified in your contract.
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:39.000
Yep.
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:42.000
There will be outlined for you what you're going to pay for
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:43.000
In the contract
00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:45.000
Yeah, in the contract
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:52.000
Come back to that every time.
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:53.000
Yeah.
00:32:53.000 --> 00:33:03.000
Yep. Yeah, we keep coming very important for everybody to fully understand. I know contracts can be very long and complex, and there's a lot of legal speak, which I guess comes back to making sure you do seek independent legal advice. We've got a great question here from Vanessa Richardson
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:07.000
How do disputes between management
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:11.000
And managers
00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:18.000
Is there an agreed process for dispute resolution?
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:23.000
There is. And every operator has to have a dispute resolution process.
00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:27.000
Now, their words on paper, but practice is often more difficult
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:37.000
And I've been involved in a dispute between a resident and a village manager recently, and it's a difficult, difficult situation
00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:48.000
It's very difficult. I also run training on the Property Council Academy and I say to managers, don't get involved in resident on residence disputes
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:55.000
Unless that resident or resident support is having an impact in the village, or is putting somebody at safety health at risk.
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.000
Because the disputes going on in villages every day
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:00.000
Yeah.
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:07.000
And if we look at our… we did a psychological abuse agent with our fear report. 70% of elder abuse, or psychological abuse
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:11.000
In Retirement Villages, resident on resident
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:20.000
So there's a majority of disputes
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:21.000
Yeah.
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:40.000
Now, that's a very interesting topic, and I just wanted to flag today, whilst we are talking specifically about the costs of living in a retirement village, there are many aspects to day-to-day life in a Retirement village and elder abuse
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:41.000
Yeah.
00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:43.000
is obviously the focus of Compass and finding ways to help people better understand, prevent, and respond to abuse. So I can really see us following up with another webinar about that
00:34:43.000 --> 00:35:00.000
So we will explore some of these other topics. And just what life is like day to day in a retirement village. So we've got another question before we go to, I guess
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.000
Yeah.
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:08.000
One of the biggest areas, which is the exit costs and things around exit costs. I did want to jump in to a question here from Jean Lynch.
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:20.000
What about elder mediation to resolve resident and management disputes? Is that a kind of framework that is readily
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:21.000
accessed
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:35.000
Again, it's a difficult one. I do know when operators have put millions of dollars aside to provide mediation sessions for residents on residence. That's one operator.
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:44.000
Very few of the others are thinking that way. However, getting a mediator involved, I know quite a few professional mediators and I've reached out to them
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:45.000
It's quite expensive
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:47.000
So who pays for that
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:58.000
So if the operator thinks the residence at fault, they want the resident to pay. If the resident thinks the operator's fault, they want the operator to pay you, and it usually ends up, it doesn't happen.
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:04.000
You know, now I record a few cases where mediation would have been excellent, but it never happened
00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:05.000
And this year remains
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:06.000
Mmm, yes, because of the cost, money, yeah.
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:08.000
Yeah, because of the cost.
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:18.000
Yeah, I'll quickly jump into another question from Frank. Do you, Roger, recommend training for resident committee members
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:27.000
Yeah.
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:28.000
Yep.
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:34.000
Oh, 100%. In fact, I'll just quickly say strata committees are going to have to be legislated to do mandatory training. I think that should be the case throughout Australia for residence committees. They play a very important role
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:49.000
They can make a village happy, or they can make it sad. And often they make it sad because of lack of knowledge and information. We run residence committees training. We're funded by Fair Trading New South Wales to run that resonance committee training, and we've run about
00:36:49.000 --> 00:37:05.000
2025 of those now, some at operators requests, some at residence requests. We've run joint ones for operators where they've tracked in people from all over to do a community session, and we're doing another one next month down in the Central Coast.
00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:06.000
Right.
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.000
So, yes, I do. That should be
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:17.000
should be mandatory. The problem is, sorry, the problem is, make it mandatory, no one will go on it, because having… getting people on residence committees is difficult.
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:33.000
Yes, yes. I have just returned from the Australian Elder Abuse Conference that was run by Elder Abuse Action Australia and supported by Caxton Community Legal Centre and ADA Australia
00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:51.000
And there were representatives from the South Australian Retirement Village Association, SAVRA, and it was very interesting talking to them. I do, whilst I do see potentially us doing another event with representatives from other states and territories to explore
00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:52.000
Yep.
00:37:52.000 --> 00:38:00.000
other issues. And so do stay connected with Compass, because we will be continuing to talk about
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:17.000
topics related to Retirement Village living, and the best way of staying connected about those events is to sign up to our newsletter, which you can do on the website. Now, I just wanted to pivot now to the big topic of exit fees
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:22.000
And this is where I guess
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:30.000
The fees are quite critical because they're larger in nature and you've already highlighted that this is where Retirement Village operators actually make
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:37.000
a profit. But what are some of the typical
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:44.000
fees, types of levels you can expect. I know they vary from contract to contract, but what are some of the scenarios?
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:51.000
Well, the most common one is that there's a percentage and the most common one is 35% on the incoming price.
00:38:51.000 --> 00:39:02.000
So the price that you purchased that Villa for, and then some of them have the exit fee on the sale price
00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:04.000
Right.
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:05.000
Right.
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:08.000
So they can do different ways. So there's really different ways of doing it. And
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:10.000
If you have
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:11.000
Oh, geez
00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:26.000
And that's a big distinction because if you haven't been living in a retirement village for a while, the price you paid for the opportunity to live there and the exit fee, you know, I know you mentioned their non-investment opportunities, but there could have been some appreciation there
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:32.000
And so that is something to be very careful about reading in your contract.
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:40.000
Well, the stats show that Retirement Council Census stat shows that the median price of retirement Village houses is going up
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:41.000
Right.
00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:47.000
So that means people are gaining capital gain
00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:54.000
On the price that they pay. So the other thing to factor into the exit fee is, if the exit fee is on the sale price
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:58.000
Then there can't be any capital gain sharing
00:39:58.000 --> 00:39:59.000
Because then it would begin
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:13.000
Yeah. Are you saying… yeah, that's very… are you seeing enough supply of retirement Villages? I mean, I think about my own age, I'm 589, I should say. I just turned 59, but when
00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:19.000
I know that by the time I'm in my 80s
00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:20.000
Great.
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:21.000
Yeah
00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:33.000
They'll almost be double the amount of people. And so, you know, are we doing enough to create enough supply
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:34.000
Right.
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:37.000
There's a huge shortage. Right now, I think the occupancy rate throughout Australia is around 97%. So in my village, a village will
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:38.000
take a week to sell
00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:39.000
Yep.
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:50.000
We've got 330 villas and the very popular, mainly because we live near Byron Bay, I think. But the sale prices, regional… regional
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:56.000
Australia is often different
00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:57.000
Yeah.
00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:07.000
Because the turnovers are slower, but the operators are trying to build. The problem is they're hitting their brick head against… or the head against the brick wall called councils
00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:08.000
Right.
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:13.000
Who are not approving, you know take two or three years to approve a Retirement Village build
00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:14.000
Yeah.
00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:18.000
And Retirement Villages is part of the Affordable Housing Solution
00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:32.000
The government says that us baby boomers, we're the problem. You know, we're rich, we're lazy, we're selfish, and we're holding up, you know, we're living in these huge houses that our kids should be living in and we need to free up the market.
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:39.000
Retirement leverage is part of that solution. And it wasn't until middle of last year where the federal government actually acknowledged that
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:41.000
Yeah, yeah
00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:59.000
I am. There was one particular statement at the conference last week where one of the speakers said that they really objected to the term a family home. It's your home. What you decide to do with it is your business. But I take your point
00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:04.000
Can you talk a little bit about capital gains?
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:09.000
And how that is treated within a Retirement Village scenario.
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:16.000
Or different across different states, but capital gain is basically the difference between what you paid and what you sell it for.
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:27.000
less than the outgoing thing. So in some cases, some contracts have the majority of contracts have, but people keep
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:29.000
all of the capital gain
00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.000
So if your house goes
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:42.000
$200,000, you get to 200. Some of them, in New South Wales, it's legislated that the operator can have a contract which is a 50-50 share
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:48.000
I do know some contracts where 100% of the capital gain goes to the operator.
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:50.000
Right
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:53.000
Lots of variation
00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:54.000
Yeah.
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:57.000
So again, it is seriously important. Lots of variations. There's no rule. So again, it's very important to read your contract.
00:42:57.000 --> 00:42:58.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:04.000
And the contract will specify how capable gain is treated and if it's shared or whatever.
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:05.000
That's really important
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:11.000
Can we talk a little bit now about the reality of selling
00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:12.000
Yeah.
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:27.000
Your share, your retirement village unit. There would be costs associated with getting your unit ready to sell. I'd like to break this question up into two parts. I mean, who determines
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:28.000
How much
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:36.000
renovation or work needs to be done to get your apartment ready for sale. And then who pays for it?
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:47.000
Yes, and again, this is different from state to state. And if you talk about refurbishment, upgrading the unit to a more modern style
00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:48.000
Yeah.
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:50.000
In New South Wales, that's the operator cost. But in other states it's different.
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:58.000
If you talk about reinstatement, so most contractors say you need to leave that unit in the condition that you entered it to
00:43:58.000 --> 00:43:59.000
Yes.
00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:06.000
If you put holes in the wall or you bash something there, you've damaged that, the resident will be responsible for fixing that
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:17.000
In most states, and this is really important, and I'm doing this with this young family here, they meet with the manager and a condition report is agreed upon
00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:29.000
Agreed upon. And then in most states, the way that's fixed can be either you use the operator or the manager's contacts or you engage your own
00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:32.000
But at the end of the day.
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:36.000
Yeah
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:37.000
Yeah.
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:40.000
Right. Yeah, because there's normal wear and tear. But this is about sitting down and agreeing what needs to be done
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:41.000
Yeah.
00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:42.000
Yeah, if you put burn marks in the carpet, you will pay for the replace that carpet
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:52.000
Okay, great. Another question here. What happens to your unit when you die?
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:54.000
I mean, I guess that's one of the ways people exit retirement
00:44:54.000 --> 00:45:01.000
No, 75% of people who leave a Retirement Village either die or go into aged care
00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:02.000
Now, that
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:03.000
Right. And so your will kicks in.
00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:18.000
Yeah, so basically they'll have a will and usually the executives will or the estate will take over that negotiations with the manager of the village. And this is quite common. This is happening every day in a village somewhere.
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:29.000
People like the people I'm talking about here, mum died suddenly last week. Dad's in Bupa with dementia. The kids are now trying to work out how to do it
00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:30.000
Yeah. Okay. So
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:34.000
And I've been helping them, but in some villages there's no one to help them
00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:39.000
Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, challenging situation for everyone involved.
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:43.000
Very challenging and traumatic and stressful
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:48.000
Yeah, yeah, and decisions need to be made rather quickly too.
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:54.000
Well, as quickly and I'll say to this as quickly as the dependents
00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:57.000
wanted to be. There's no rush. But the only rush is if you want your money
00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:01.000
Right, okay. Right. You can continue, but you're still responsible for paying the monthly fees.
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:15.000
You will pay, correct. And I noticed a question about the recurrent charges cap. You will keep the dependents will keep paying the weekly fees, monthly fees
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:18.000
Until that villa is vacated
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:25.000
The vacated means handing back the keys. There's nothing there. You've got no need to go. You've handed over the responsibility to the manager
00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:28.000
Now, only in New South Wales
00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:33.000
That cap will extend for 42 days maximum
00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:40.000
The house is soldered in 30 days, then it's 30 days. But that's not available in most other states.
00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:52.000
Right, okay, that's an interesting distinction. We've got a question here from a B van. Are capital gains charged before or after the ex of fees are paid?
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:54.000
It's sort of part of the
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:55.000
No, it's the same formula.
00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:57.000
It's part of the same thing, yeah
00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:06.000
Yeah, it's part of the same thing. If your capital gains 500,000 and your excess three is 200,000, you'll get 300,000
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:08.000
This is part of the same calculation.
00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:09.000
Yeah.
00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:15.000
Yeah, it's all part of the same so but yeah, all part of the same negotiation. Can I ask you, about what happens if the unit doesn't sell?
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:31.000
This is a really, really good question. And again, different sites deal with this in different ways. And again, I'll keep using New South Wales. If you're in metropolitan area and it doesn't sell for six months, you can ask to get your money
00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:32.000
Right.
00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:35.000
If you're in a rural area, then it's 12 months
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:36.000
All right
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:45.000
But in other states it's different. And I do know some villas in some remote areas that haven't sold for, you know, 12, 18 months
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:57.000
Right, yes. So, I mean, you've highlighted the fact that there's a lot of demand in the metropolitan areas, but that may not be the case in regional and remote Australia.
00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:00.000
It's not far behind. The difference is not a lot
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:01.000
Right, okay, interesting.
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:06.000
Because most people who I shouldn't say most people, a lot of people who
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:09.000
want to go into Retirement Village, want to stay in the local area
00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:11.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:24.000
Because he used to it. They've got friends there, they've got a doctor there, they've got, you know the bowls club down the road. So they want to stay locally. They just want to downsize so they don't have to get on the right on mail for two hours and pick up trees and things like that or clean the pool
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:36.000
Yeah, yeah. And you know, and Australians are one of the most biggest owners of homes. I think only 10% of Australians live in apartments. Most of us
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:37.000
Yeah.
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:50.000
Live in houses and so yes, I guess there is there are decisions around maintenance and capability and capacity, and wanting to change your lifestyle. So, all very important decisions as part of
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:59.000
Whether a time a village is suitable for you or not. Can I ask you about special aged care provisions?
00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:03.000
Yeah, you can, but again, this is only in New South Wales.
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:04.000
Right, okay.
00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:22.000
So, and this is and the thing, the thing that's happening with national legislation is that I know Victoria has gone through a big reform South Australia last year, our new regulation came out last year. States are looking at other states to see what are the best practices
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:28.000
Wouldn't it be wonderful if we had one national retirement Village Act
00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:35.000
And everybody, because we've got operators that are across borders and it's so complex for them and confusing for them because
00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:37.000
Contractor arrangements are different
00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:43.000
So with the in New South Wales.
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:53.000
And it only works if there's one person in a house, and you know a lot of people living in retirement villages are single women. We've got 160 single women living here
00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:57.000
If one of them needed to go into a nursing home
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.000
pretty much straight away
00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:06.000
They can ask for 85% of the agreed price of the house before it sells to move into that
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:10.000
Nursing home. So they got somewhere to go, and they looked after
00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:15.000
And then the, you know the sale of the house and the contract was up, look after itself
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:18.000
Right, and that's not available in every state and territory.
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:20.000
Definitely, no, it isn't.
00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:25.000
So again.
00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:26.000
Excuse me.
00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:30.000
No, okay. So harmonisation is a big challenge and I guess part of the advocacy that your association and others are
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:32.000
You know
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:33.000
It's not going to happen
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:47.000
It's not going to happen. Look, it's a wishful thinking thing, but every state, like when the Occupational Health and Safety Harmonisation came on, all the states were on board, except Victoria said, we do better, so they didn't join in. So, you'll get states not wanting to do it
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:48.000
Yeah.
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:50.000
So it's not going to happen in my lifetime
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:51.000
Yeah.
00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:52.000
There's no appetite to do it
00:50:52.000 --> 00:51:11.000
No, okay. Well, that's a good reality check too. So, you know, that complexity, we see that in many different aspects of Australia, Australian life, enduring powers of attorney is another one. But jumping in quickly, Jennifer has another question
00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:20.000
She asked, Roger, can you explain the arrangement for villagers to pay the aged care room costs
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:24.000
And how that impacts exit entitlements.
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:27.000
Excuse me.
00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:29.000
Very good question
00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:39.000
There is, depending on the circumstance of the person, there is an arrangement entered into with that person or their
00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:45.000
dependents, the powers of attorney or whoever, about how that works.
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:50.000
It basically the emphasis is get that person in a home so they're looked up safely
00:51:50.000 --> 00:52:01.000
Then the negotiation happens about how that happens. In terms of the actual payments, I'm not 100% sure. I hope I'm never going to have to use it
00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:04.000
Because I'm going straight to golf heaven from here
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:18.000
Okay, and then we've got another question here. Are there any circumstances where elderly residents are compulsory required to contribute to sinking funds
00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:24.000
Otherwise known as capital works funds for major repairs in older complexes.
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:28.000
there are, and that then again depends on
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:32.000
The operator and how they frame that budget
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:33.000
Yeah, so
00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:35.000
Right. And that's in your contract as well, isn't it?
00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:36.000
Yes.
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:41.000
Yes, yes, so that'll be there. But basically a budget's a standalone item.
00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:54.000
The contractor will say there'll be a budget, but the budget will be framed so that there might be a portion of that budget put away for capital works funds in the future, or whatever, or capital maintenance
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:56.000
And the residents will vote on that
00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:07.000
Now they can either vote to approve it or disapprove it. Depending on how that and it's always about how that information is communicated to the residents.
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:15.000
Remembering the residents want their village to be liveable in two and three and five years time
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:24.000
So the residents will choose to contribute to that improvement en masse, and they will vote for it, yes or no.
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:40.000
Okay, good response. Now, I did want to highlight again three terrific videos, short videos, seven minutes each that Roger and the team at Retirement Village Association in New South Wales have produced. They're on the Compass website.
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:55.000
And they're highlighted in the housing and accommodation section under resources. Now, we're coming to the… and I'll also include a link to them in the newsletter that I'll send everybody after this event
00:53:55.000 --> 00:54:09.000
We're coming close to the end of our conversation, so any other questions that people have, pop them into the Q&A and we'll endeavour to answer them in the next few minutes. But Roger, I just
00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:12.000
Yeah.
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:13.000
Oh, yes.
00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:20.000
But sorry, Brett, can I just have a plug for two other videos on our website? One is factors to consider before you move into a retirement Village
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:28.000
So these are the things you need to think about. The second one is understanding your contract.
00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:34.000
So we've got those two videos up on our RVO website, and I'm happy for you to steal them and use them as well
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:50.000
Oh, wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. So yes, is there anything else you think we've missed or any sort of closing statement that you'd like to send to everybody because you know it's a big decision
00:54:50.000 --> 00:55:05.000
And one that people, you know, do want to feel like they're making the right decision for themselves and their family. So yeah, any parting piece of advice
00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:10.000
Yeah, basically, if you're thinking of moving into Retirement Village
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:12.000
It's a good move
00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:21.000
I've been in one for 10 years, I have no regrets. I've met over two and a half thousand residents in retirement Villages. 98% of them are extremely happy
00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:31.000
But choose wisely, look at your contract. If you're already in a Retirement village, go and get your contract out and have a look through it.
00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:36.000
If you don't understand it, get some professional person to walk you through that.
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:46.000
As well, go and knock on your manager's door and say, look, I don't understand this, could you explain this to me? Because managers don't have much to do, so they'll be very happy for you to
00:55:46.000 --> 00:56:00.000
go up to there and talk to them about that. If you're thinking of exiting, then or you want to leave, make sure you understand the terms of that leaving. Some people are leaving with less than they entered with
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:04.000
It's really important to do your sums and ask people to help you
00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:21.000
Yeah, I mean, I think everybody will take away different things from today's conversation and you have this link that will come to you in the next few days. You can go back and listen to our conversation again. But one of the things that has really resonated with me is just
00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:32.000
variation that exists from one contract to the other, and how important it is for people to know what's in their contract
00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:40.000
And so it's really imperative that people do seek independent
00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:55.000
financial and legal advice, and that advice can be from a community legal center, from legal aid, or you can contact the New South Wales Retirement Village Association, or the other associations in Australia
00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:56.000
Yeah
00:56:56.000 --> 00:57:10.000
and ask for their advice on where you might go to seek that advice. Thank you, everybody, today for your terrific questions, and I really want to say a big thank you to you, Roger
00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:27.000
For your time and your expertise and knowledge, it has been really valuable. And yes, do sign up to the Compass newsletter, because we will be doing more free events
00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:43.000
On retirement village living, the different aspects involved and the issues and challenges and opportunities that exist. So thank you all, and I really appreciate your times today, and have a good afternoon.
00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:47.000
Thank you, Brett.
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